One year out from the teams travelling out to New Zealand for the 2011 Rugby World Cup, Total Rugby gets up close and personal with the two most recent winning captains, Martin Johnson and John Smit. First up, Johnno reveals all about 2003, and looks ahead to 2011.
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Total Rugby: What was the atmosphere like during that last
week in the run-up to the final in Sydney?
Martin Johnson: We all went down to the beach,
which people had been doing all week, and there were people, radio
crews and TV crews chasing us down the beach and you suddenly
thought 'wow, this has gone up a level'. But the guys were
still very relaxed. There would be fans in the hotel lobby and on
the pavements shouting 'Come on!' and you thought
'it's Tuesday!' Half the guys were still limping two
days after a big game, stiff and sore. We knew we had to perform
but we knew we had to perform at 8:00 on Saturday night, not
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. So it was very relaxed, I
think we probably trained less than we'd ever trained for a
test match, but we knew what we were doing, it was just about any
little details that needed to be addressed and then getting your
mental preparation right in the build-up to the game.
We used to have the Thursday off before a game on Saturday
and my wife was there with my little girl, who was only very young.
She'd stay with me on the Wednesday night and Thursday we'd
have the whole day off and relax and we went into Sydney. I got
back that night and saw one of the lads and he said 'my mate
saw you pushing and push chair in Sydney and couldn't believe
it!'. People have this perception, but if you want to get up
that high you don't have to spend the whole week in a dark room
banging your head against the wall, you have to come down there.
So when we walked out the atmosphere was great, but my
mindset was that you walk out there, you enjoy it, you do the
anthems and it's emotional but then you tune that down and
concentrate on the game and all of that around you is secondary. If
you've got a great support, fantastic, but if you haven't,
if you're away from home and you're relying on that then
you're in trouble. It's almost like the crowd isn't
there. You're just playing on a pitch, your focus is the white
lines and it's remarkable that you never really stop and look
up into the third tier when you're playing. It's only when
you win it that you walk around and think 'wow, there are a few
people here'.
TR: Can you take us back to that final moment. What
emotions were going through you?
MJ: Mike (Catt) had kicked it out and it was just
relief. Sheer relief. I played in a European Cup final that
finished in a similar way and when that finished it was jubilation
because that match could have gone either way, but we just felt
that we should have won that game, without being arrogant about it
we should have won that game more comfortably than we did. I'm
happy that it ended like it did because people love the drama and
the drama lives on, but just sheer relief. You'd never ever
have forgiven yourself for losing that match.
TR: What do you make of next year's World Cup and the extra pressure on the host nation?
MJ: The expectation is something New Zealand have to handle, the fact that their public expects them to win everything. And I think (sometimes you need) a little of that 'winning is good enough'. If you go in with that mindset, that you've got to fight and scrap and it's going to be close, you actually often find yourself playing better and getting into it. If you say 'we're going to play some great rugby', whatever that means, you often end up getting outperformed and then when a game's close you feel that pressure.
New Zealand had it against France in that quarter final. France hadn't played that well, they crawled into the quarter finals having lost to Argentina but suddenly their mindset was different and the pressure was all on New Zealand. All they needed to do was drop a goal to win that game. You can defend a bad win afterwards. It's a lot better than talking about a loss. You regroup the next day and that's knock-out rugby. Just win it.
TR: What are you expecting of a World Cup in New Zealand, a country you know well?
MJ: With their history in the World Cup now the pressure on them will be unbelievable. At home, a relatively small country, the whole country will be into it with a huge expecation for New Zealand to win and almost anything other than a win will be seen as a disaster I guess.
It should be good. You have to step back and try and enjoy it too as a player or Manager because they are special things to be involved in. In the world of rugby it's the biggest thing by a mile and even in the world of sport it's a huge event.
This is an extract from the current Total Rugby Radio show, in which Johnno also talks about the 2003 homecoming parade, the differences between playing and managing and how he can use his experiences to help the current group.
To listen, click on the link below.
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